Look at where the lines will end up. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Recharge the compressor with a/c ester oil and a tracer dye. If your car does not have a high pressure cut-out switch in the AC system then youll need to have one installed (call us if you need help). If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. If ambient is 90 (today) and the output of the condensor is 110, that's pretty good isn't it? A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues.You could improve the cooling capacity by replacing the condensor with a high effeciency parallel flow unit. Since the hose is the stock hose, you cannot tell what refrigerant is inside. -The amount of R-134a needed will typically be 80-90% of the R-12 charge. Replacement expansion valve for R134a or R12 A/C refrigerants, with O-ring connections. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. Very interesting! So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. Also, it can be used with all types of compressors. We mention using ester type refrigerant oil. You do not need to replace every o-ring in the system, but if you happen to open a connection that has an o-ring you should replace the old o-ring with one that is compatible with R134a and lubricate the o-ring with ac oil. Ask Our Pros-Owner Assistance - NO DIY advice will be given. . = R134a Charge Level. Additionally, R134a was introduced as a replacement for R22 and R12 in high and medium-temperature refrigeration systems like domestic and commercial chillers. how to get to disney springs from boardwalk / bb dakota plaid jacket canada / difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. Attach the R134a charge port adaptors, there are two types.. one of which you need to remove the old R12 valve cores. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve why is miles raney not on homestead rescue June 21, 2022. manila mayor candidates 2022 The larger fitting goes on the discharge port and the smaller fitting goes on the suction line or compressor inlet / suction port. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. When the temperature is reduced to-7C or below, the plants ability to cool the airdrops significantly. This drop can affect energy consumption since the plant will operate for a longer period or a larger plant will have to be installed. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. As illustrated in the chart below, the curves below run together nearly throughout the curve, only slightly breaking paths at around 250 psig/150 degrees and above Flammability/Safety R-1234yf has been designated as MILDLY flammable. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. I had a pair on my SAAB that seemed ok - but new ones ran 20% faster!Your best clue to airflow issues is a 60 mph test. I don't want to be chasing ghosts. Air Conditioning Expansion Valve R134a - R12 replacement kit This would be a custom install, there is no "drop-in" condensor upgrade for that car.Check for proper fan operation, and clean the air path on both the condensor & radiator. Expansion Valve Differences R12 vs R134 - Automotive Air Conditioning El juny de 2017, el mateix grup va decidir crear un web deDoctor Who amb el mateix objectiu. sparkee said: Thanks for the Service Bulletin. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. The adjusted tension of this spring is the determining factor in the opening and closing of the expansion valve. A. Pressure/temperature table for R12, R134a, and R513A is shown in Figure 1. . 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. The analysis focuses on Coefficient of Performance for . By after changing just about everything, he got what was termed, satisfactory cooling. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. It may take a couple of tries to get things really clean.The laser is usually close on clean surfaces, but I prefer a T/C. This may be the source of your oil confusion. To ensure the right charge, you must fill the new system with between 75 and 85% of the factory-set capacity for optimal cooling. Accessories Pumps, Cooling Towers, Evap Condensers, etc, Components Valves, Motors, Condensers, Evaporators, etc, Duct Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Piping Systems Design, Installation & Practice, Control System Design, Installation & Practice, Pro's Forum: National Electrical Code (NEC), Pro's Forum: Calculations & Electrical Theory, Pro's Forum: Electrical Business & Marketing. Bohica, I appreciate your help with this. Next I'll jumper the aux fan. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve I would suggest you do stay away from R-134a since with the hot gas bypass of your system (if it is to be just as the original) extremes of temperature and pressure will be very hard on your compressor and the rest of the system. A. Pressure/temperature plot of R134a vs. R12 is shown in figure 1. System has been working fine for a year. This is a great space to write long text about your company and your services. Some say that a chemical reaction can harm the A/C very badly as R134a reacts with mineral oil in some way. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve It was later found that R-134a had a very high Global Warming Potential, or GWP, number. If you are replacing other system components, such as condensers, driers or hoses, you may need to add more a/c refrigerant oil to the system. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. Then, subtract that result by 0.25 pounds to get the proper amount of R134a charge. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. The oil used in R12 and R134a are different and not compatible. Besides, R134a refrigerant was manufactured after R12 was banned to help reduce the harshness of the old chemical (R12) on the ozone layer. You do not need to replace the expansion valve in most cases. The most common influences which effect the capability of R134a to perform well are the condenser, in some cases the the superheat setting of the expansion valve or the amount of R134a. Pray I can let some oil out of the compressor without losing my precious R12. Fitting a PF condensor is not rocket science, but it requires some planning. Its highest value is 1. This means that it has a high potential of causing depletion to the ozone layer. We've updated our forums!Click here to visit the new forum, Year: 1983Make: MercedesModel: 240DEngine Size: 2.4Refrigerant Type: R12Ambient Temp: 90Pressure Low: 35Pressure High: ?Country of Origin: United States, Hi, this is my first post, so please take it easy on the noob. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? Like say half a can or so recharge come springtime warm weather or something. There is NO reason to retrofit a vehicle to R-134a as long as the R-12 system is cooling properly and contains a normal charge of refrigerant. This is due to many facts: R134a refrigerant is about 10% less efficient in moving heat than R12! Where would I get some basic info on it, I know nothing about it. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. You can also check the Aux fan in your case. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. R-134a XV for R-134a use. My turn to LOL - greasiesel! You may have heard of a friend that did the job himself with borrowed equipment and 12 or 16 ounce cans of refrigerant. R1234yf. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. Are r12 and r134 fittings different? It is common for eurocar threads to go multiple pages, and as Nick points out - sometimes cool is all you will ever get. And by matching the correct amount of R134a to use in a given vehicle, correcting the superheat of the expansion valve (if necessary), you can in some manner nearly balance or match the amount of heat drawn out by the evaporator and released by the condenser. The cost of recharging the air conditioner is between $150 to $500. maintain the A/C of older cars. Is that why expansion valves are specific to R12 or R134A? How about evacing 1 pound of refrig from the system, and then putting 1 lb of pure R12 back in? a 50f delta across the condensor is good, but I suspect that is an idle reading. Could that be screwing up the systems performance?Anyway, when I installed the system, the new TXV (is that short for expansion valve?) However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. and he synthesized R-134a in 1936, 5 years after R-12 was . Using R134a requires that Polyolester (POE) lubricant must be used in the compressor. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. #13. It's not just the poor performance - the cooling just stops working after a while. I'm thinking I might have put too much oil in the system - everywhere i read had a different amount - the manufacturer of the compressor, the MB factory service manual, online forums. I dont know why the cost difference between compressors is so huge, though. Operating Pressure/Temperature Differences The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. And I lied about the compressor switches on this car - there are 2 switches on the drier - a temp and a pressure switch. The only mechanical differences between an R12 system and an R134a system are that R134a systems typically have larger condensers and more powerful compressors. In 1994 they switched from R-12 to R-134a. R-12 expansion valves can be re-used, but will not be as efficient as R-134a specific ones because of the slightly different pressure specs of R-12 vs. R-134a. However, you can convert R12 to R134a by yourself, save money and keep all the tools purchased. These two refrigerants are the older types and are not used in newer refrigeration and air conditioning systems. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. It would make a big difference at idle ,in traffic!! The typical scenario here is when the car owner buys an inexpensive retro-fit kit from the local auto parts store. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. Als nostres webs oferimOne Piece,Doctor Who,Torchwood, El Detectiu ConaniSlam Dunkdoblats en catal. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Automotive Replacement Expansion Valves & Parts; Industrial & Scientific; Customer Reviews. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. Lasers don't do well on vent temps, a stick thermometer is better in that application. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. We say generally because the vehicle manufacturer may have a formula already worked out for the R134a conversion process. To prevent refrigerant loss you should consider replacing your old hose lines with barrier type hose. Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. $21 . Took me a while to figure that one out, and how to say that. The butylcellusolve or the citrus solvent will dissolve the carcass in a few minutes. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. _____ 2012 E350 2006 Callaway SC560 . I had a 1991 BMW switched to 134a by just changing the low pressure charging valve, flushing and refilling with 134 (maybe with 10% . Environmental Impact: When R134a escapes into the atmosphere, it contributes to global warming. At the time I thought nothing of it, but now I am thinking maybe that is contributing to the system not working as well as it could. We ALWAYS want to know the pressure readings! Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. However, the supply houses don't indicate a difference. In most cases, the systems used have varied components, designs, and service ports. R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . R12 was once used in many air conditioning units as a refrigerant or cooling agent. All pre-97 XJs use systems with the same basic operating principle, although the parts do change a bit. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. and recharged with mineral oil and 2.2 lbs R12. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve Jun 19, 2007. The general practice of charging the system with 15% less refrigerant adds to the thermal deficiency of R134a. The oil is spread all over your system when it is at rest. It is made up of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. Can I Use Automotive r134a in a Refrigerator | An Expert Guide Then again, there are two different expansion valves. The problem with not being an expert is that you don't know what is important and what's not. Flush with a garden hose - do not use a high pressure washer - you can bend the fins flat & damage the condensor.B. . R134a and R12 are both refrigerants used in vehicle air conditioning systems. If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Since then, the industry standard has been R134a, which is an efficient replacement. The MB chart shows 360 psi with R12 in some conditions. BTW, I use a stick thermo in the vents and the laser on the condenser. system of 0.33 TR and refrigerant used was R12. Related products. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. . Besides, its technology has been tested and trusted. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. The aux fan seems to be working fine - it switches on occassionally. Above this temperature, the saturation pressure of R134a is higher than that of R12; below, it is lower. Replied by Rich928 on topic R12 or R134a. He started writing automotive articles to share his garage experience with car enthusiasts and armature mechanics. But, what is considered a good temperature differential across the condensor? What effect would it have on performance, if any?At the moment, the ac is acting up - will work fine for about 15 minutes and then slowly the vent temperatures rise until the compressor switches off. And yes - expansion valves sometimes need replacing if they are sticky - but a proper AC flush should eliminate the need for a new one if it's already in good condition. R134a has a smaller molecule than R12 so R134a will leak out sooner than R12. Inhalation of vapor: Inhaling a large amount of R134a vapor can lead to drowsiness, temporary nervous system depression, and lethargy. Stay home and grill your own steaks and stir your own martini. Is there a source of valves by, say, eaton number? After the optimum refrigerant charge is determined the car should be test driven to check for performance of the system. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. Mine was 61, so the system is not working as it is supposed to. R134a compressors are substituted as new to retrofit the R12 system compressor part numbers with different height sealing washers. Remove the old mineral oil from the compressor by turning it upside down, side to side, and turn the front hub on the clutch assembly. Plus, not releasing the chemical into the air is morally justifiable. Though - the valve for a 1991 says R12 on it, and for a 1994, it says R-134a. You may be just fine on oil - it depends on what compressor you have & how much oil you put in.A T/C is short for Thermocouple. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? A Lot of the fins are bent, especially at the top. Reattach the hose lines using new R134a compatible o-rings, lightly lubricate with compressor oil. The P H and T cond,sat of the HR12 at a T oa of 40 C were higher than that of the R134a, resulting in a higher P e than that for the R134a. It is also used in automotive car conditioning and the plastic industry. Heres some important advice Whenever you notice your R12 refrigerant is leaking, turn off all flames and open the doors so it can escape to the open atmosphere. However, theyre still used in older plants, systems, and the automotive industry. R12 is highly destructive to the earths ozone layer. As R134A refrigerant has different operating characteristics and pressures this valve is not necesssry. I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. The #1 question asked by NEW MEMBERS. You can buy bulk hose, and the proper fittings, then have them crimped off the vehicle.Be sure that no air bypasses the new condensor on the way to the radiator. Expansion Valve. The bad thing is I don't know what to do about it. -------------------------Just another brick in the wallHad a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil, The older expansion valves were filled with the refrigerant they were used with, the replacement valves (today) are filled with a different chemical to work with both refrigerants..Hope this helps-------------------------ChickEmail: Chick---------------------------------------------Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose, I believe the optimum supercool setting will vary slightly between an expansion valve for an R12, as compared to R134a, system. link to How to cut off a Catalytic Converter. R12 Expansion Valve with R134A charge? - Maverick 3) A TXV optimized for 134a will be ok with R12. Well, I'm not sure it is 'fine' - it doesn't cool very well in 95F weather. With the A/c off hi and lo were both at 105psi. I could easily be over at least 2 - 3 ounces over on the oil. The flammables have hydrocarbons. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. B. R12, on the other hand, is called chlorofluorocarbon (CFC). The difference really shows up on the high side. The old compressor used R12 and the new unit will be R134a. From memory, I put in at least 8 ounces of oil, probably around 10 ounces in there. With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. The pressure/temperature curves for R-1234yf and R-134a are very similar. Even with proper fan operation, missing seals & air dams can effect condensor effeciency. Temp switch works the aux fan. in /nfs/c05/h04/mnt/113983/domains/toragrafix.com/html/wp-content . A discussion of the relationship between valve capacities and superheat set-tings can be found in Bulletin 10-9. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. The evap is hard to get at. You do not want to exceed the systems high side recommendations. R12 and R134 are of different chemistry. 4) Repeat step 2, making sure it will fit. R12 to 134A conversion. | Allpar Forums In this study, without the need for major modifications to the bus air conditioner, the variation of the ejector dimensions according to different parameters has been investigated in the case of using the R1234yf, R1234ze(E), or R600a refrigerants, which may be a substitute for R134a as a refrigerant due to . This can be very very expensive. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. The AC usually does not work at all. The difference between R12 and R134a TEV (exp valves) is primarily the 'superheat'. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). Also the new quick connect fittings for the high & low side. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. Agram a retevis rt22 password i bastrop county district clerk records el material que oferim als nostres webs. Thus, when the system is running, condensing the CO2 is not a problem. However, take note that R134a refrigerants are manufactured specifically for automotive air conditioners. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. But as there's not a big difference, people say you can suffice with either. Edited: Tue July 17, 2007 at 3:25 AM by bohica2xo, I believe there is only one switch - the refrigerant switch. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve For instance you can evacuate FRIGC FR-12 into a refrigerant recovery bottle that has R134a in it or visa versa. I had to vaccum the system for 2 hours and recharge 4 oz of PAG oil plus 36 oz of 134A freon (3 cans). "Howdy, Folks!" SO here's my question. The OEM spec is 2300 rpm @ 12.6v (engine stopped fully charged battery). Is there a difference in the expansion valve for R12 as opposed to R-134a? But I don't want to waste your time. How is 1234yf different from . So if you car has a large amount of rubber hose, such as a 40 feet with the 911, then you will be re-charging the system often and that is expensive no matter which refrigerant you use. Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . Then when it is switched off for a few minutes and then back on, the air cools again. Figure 2 shows the different phases and pressures the refrigerant . Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. Autor de l'entrada Per ; Data de l'entrada calexico west port of entry hours; 12 month libor rate 2021 a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve a difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve. You will be fine with a 134a-compatible TXV running R12. difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve But I've read that these car's didn't do too well in the a/c stakes, so that might just be as good as it gets. As for R134a and R1234yf, theres no room for conversion. asia pacific stevie awards 2021. gin, amaretto cocktail. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. The Main change in the system is the expansion valve.